After I transitioned into A.G., I met my wife, my kid started school and I really got my act together. That's when I put both feet in and started doing insurance wholeheartedly.

PW: Talk a little bit about A.G. and how the brokerage environment may be shifting.

Historically, A.G. has been a smaller firm. It was more of a shared staffing model and has grown into a true agency over the years. The ability to work autonomously to some degree was attractive to me, although I've since learned the value of working more collaboratively. It's always been very progressive.

I think there's a way forward for smaller brokers and houses. There's a lot of mass buy-up happening now, but in the coming years, we'll see more brokers wanting to go back the other way, toward a more boutique feel.

Right now, we have an aging broker population and there's a lot of attraction to an exit strategy, but I think a lot of the younger folks have had a taste of the smaller firm, of having a higher touch interaction with the client, and making nimble decisions that are in the clients' interest. So I think you'll see more people begin to move in that direction over the next three to five years.

PW: What's the recipe for success for someone heading that way?

Many benefits brokers have developed a bad habit of giving away things for free or getting outside their lane. I think you'll see more of us peeling back out to one or two key individuals who have a thirst for learning and can develop a very robust fee-for-service strategy, with non-insurance consulting alongside the benefits piece.

I've been working on moving some of our revenue into fee-for-service consulting. To have transparency in the value of what we do—there's been a lot of intention toward that in our firm, because we needed to future-proof ourselves. It comes with a huge learning curve.

PW: I saw you described as “a calming force.” What does that mean?

Every client we meet is in some kind of chaotic, stressful situation, whether it be rate increases, backlash of carrier deficiencies, or something else. Something's wrong when you're meeting with a client, or you probably wouldn't be invited.

Most of us were not trained for higher economic and political policy impact. That's a game we get pushed into. So it's a fine dance of staying up on it but not getting too bent out of shape about any one thing. When you look at the big picture, you realize that when policy is passed, you're probably looking at five to seven years before something becomes viable in the marketplace and maybe a couple more years before it flushes out. So keeping that perspective becomes part of the calming force.

PW: You're big on insurance education. What are the major shortfalls?

I think one of the biggest problems is sending an employee into the world without tools. We spend a lot of time and advocacy focused on how to make an impact at the time of service, because enrollment meetings aren't sufficient for education. You have to experience something to actually understand how it works. Maybe it's a cool tool that does geo-sensing, pings them on their phone when they walk into an emergency room and says, “Would you like to talk to a doctor right now on the phone?” Trying to get those tools developed and implemented, and to get people registered ahead of time seems to be the challenge we haven't fully figured out yet, though we're getting a lot better.

PW: What other exciting strategies or trends are you seeing right now to address costs?

I think of the saying, “Everything old is new again.” Direct primary care and surgical care contracts have started to emerge, where you end up with no-cost or low-cost first dollar health care, removing that barrier of care so you get a better engaged health outcome. I think we're going to see that trend, whether it's technology-driven or things like concierge care.

The self-funded plans, the reference-based plans are also very exciting. But some of the new broker-driven captives scare me a little bit, because I'm not sure whether it's all about the brokers' best interest or the clients' best interest. I'm seeing so many brokers who don't have a background in risk management try to do risk management for thousands or tens of thousands of employees at a time.

PW: I've heard others say that brokers who don't fully understand self-funding might view it as a panacea and not always consider whether it's a good fit.

I agree. I've taken clients in that direction, but getting the data to move forward and understand those decisions is not always easy. Trying to prescribe that without building a baseline of data is dangerous. Reference-based pricing will absolutely fend off big dollar claims. Now, what's the effect on the employee? Does the employer understand it and have a strong HR team behind them? That's part of the conversation, too. The nice part of it is that you're going to see a lot more accountability on fraud. I see a potential fraud situation happening several time a month on a claims basis, whether it's overuse of imaging, or billing for services that didn't occur.

PW: What do the terms “innovation” and “disruption” mean to you?

The word “innovation” excites me. It means people are looking to solve a problem that exists or that they perceive exists. Someone's actively putting brain power and finances behind finding something that works better; tweaking or reinventing something to work better.

Anytime someone says they're a disruptor, my skepticism flag goes up. “Disruption” is such a fancy term in the investment world. We had a few bright shining stars that made a big impact, but I think they often overinflate the product and the viability.

PW: Where do you see the role of the broker heading in the next five to 10 years?

I think that Parker Conrad was right when he said, “We're going to drink your milkshake.” The industry sometimes had disproportionate revenue versus effort. Broker compensation has outpaced economic growth, which allowed for more staff, more firms and bigger retail and leases. I think part of what's driving the mergers is a market correction in broker revenue.

The broker today feels more overwhelmed and less in control than they ever have, which will push a lot of us to evaluate how many they're trying to serve. And specialization is a trend that will continue to grow. The positive is you get better at doing those things; the bad part is, you lose perspective about what goes on throughout the different stages of the consumer.

I also think you'll see brokers doing consulting fees outside of commissions. Firms that want to stay relevant must learn how you price an equitable relationship. As a result, brokers will become more like professional services firms. Brokers aren't trained in business operations, so not only are we learning the industry, we're also looking to grow our skill sets and operational functions, which will ultimately better ourselves, but also our clients.

PW: What are your sources of inspiration and innovation?

Public radio is actually one of the most refreshing, outside-the-box areas of inspiration, knowledge and perspective for me. There's such a variety out there, and it provides different points of view.

Also, I was part of a theological group called Emergent. Being part of a conversation that was bigger than I can comprehend and actually seeing that cultural dynamic social shift was eye-opening for me.

PW: Finish this sentence: The key to success in this industry going forward is…

A hunger for learning.