Diversity of ideas: A Q&A with Rosario Avila and Andrew McNeil

Paul Wilson: Tell me about your paths into the industry and how you started working together.

Rosario Avila: I answered an ad for an administrative assistant position at a small brokerage office in Sonoma. I actually didn’t even know that they were in employee benefits; I just knew they needed some admin work and I was looking for something part-time. I started off there and then quickly went full time, became an account manager and ended up staying there for 14 years.

In 2016, I moved over to Arrow Benefits, where I met Andrew. I’d come to realize that I’d found my niche in benefits and wanted an opportunity to grow. I found it easy to understand and realized I was also able to explain it to people. It became second nature to me.

I came over as an account manager and then started our Spanish language division, Alianza. A few years later, I moved into a hybrid role where I started selling, as well.

Andrew McNeil: I started in 2005, when I was 19 years old. Insurance was the family path for me. It wasn’t what I thought I’d do; I was actually looking at going into law enforcement, but I decided to give insurance a try first and here I still am, 18 years later. So nothing like Rosario, who answered an ad. Who does that?

PW: How did your partnership develop? What are the advantages?

AM: We did some meetings together and had really good rapport. We realized we represented two different age demographics, races, genders and different cultural backgrounds. All those things provide different perspectives to our prospects and clients. So our approach has been: two perspectives, one solution. We also call it “the power of two.” But it isn’t just a matter of, “Hey, I need another person; let’s do this meeting together.” We come as a package. Depending on the client, one of us is always the lead, but we work together on everything.

RA: We both come from an account management background, so we look at the full picture. We don’t just look at the budget; we also consider how that trickles down to the employees, how they’re going to take that information, and the communication pieces that go along with it. That’s where we use not only our background, but our differences. When we go out to a group, they know that if Andrew is out, I’m right there. I know everything he knows; it’s just like you’re talking to him. I know what needs to be done and how to help the employees. And vice versa.

There’s a full team behind us, but sometimes the owners only want to talk to us, and they don’t want to wait. One time, we were both in a meeting and when we left, he went to his office, I went to mine and we each had a voicemail. The owner of the company called him, the GM called me, and they were having the exact same problem! We both got on the phone and called them right back. I came out to fill him in and he was like, “I already know.”

AM: The thing is that in that situation, they should have called 911. But instead they called us. I said, “You should call the police!” And they said, “You were just the first people we thought to call!”

PW: What areas of innovation or specific strategies are you finding success with now?

AM: The emphasis we’ve put on communication when it comes to things like demographics and cultural or linguistic communication has made a real difference. All three are big things that many people don’t think about. That’s been really helpful in allowing us to serve our current clients well but also win new business.

RA: We focus on the drivers of utilization for employees. Where are the problems? It’s usually in communication with the employees about how to utilize their benefits, or which benefits are being offered. This is part of their compensation package and yet they often don’t understand it. When you add in a language barrier, it becomes even more difficult.

PW: Speaking of, can you talk about your Spanish language division? Why is that an area of concentration for you?

RA: I grew up as the youngest of eight children. I was often pulled in to translate for my parents when my siblings weren’t there. So I understand the importance of translation. Not just, “Here’s the English version,” but “What does that actually mean?”

When I first started in insurance, people would give us Spanish versions of materials. We’d send it out, but I always wondered, is everyone really understanding this?

I saw a huge discrepancy when it came to enrollment meetings. I was present to answer people’s questions, but our other brokers would bring someone to translate. I would see how fast everyone was talking and the employees had a glazed look on their faces. That’s when I was like, “Let me do the presentation.” I would focus on education, and that’s where I started to get more interaction from employees since I had more cultural understanding because of my family background.

Growing up, if my parents knew someone at the bank and decided they knew what they were talking about, they would go to that person for everything! That trust was so important. So as I did presentations, I started getting that same feedback. The owners would tell me they really liked how I presented and said that they were seeing more conversations and hearing more questions.

When I came to Arrow, they were very supportive of me starting a Spanish language division. We already had four bilingual account managers, so we had the infrastructure. Then we had to figure out what to do with that and how we could best help our community understand their benefits and make it accessible for more employees. So we added a direct phone line for Spanish speakers, an email address and a text line. We also extended our hours from 8 AM to 8 PM to make it easier for hard-to-reach employees, the ones who are out in the fields. By the time they get home, it’s 6 o’clock and they’re giving the information to their spouses. Well, who do they call with questions?

Andrew and I have done meetings where his part of the presentation to the English speakers is not even 10 minutes long and I’m in there for 40 minutes. I’ve had other account managers say, “We hear all of you laughing.” And I say, “Yes, I’m building rapport with them. I’m asking questions about their families and learning about their backgrounds so I can better answer their questions.”

PW: How can the industry do a better job of bringing in younger and more diverse candidates? And why does it matter?

AM: I think a lot of people are just looking to check a box. But part of the bigger question is around diversity of thought. There are populations that you could serve much better if your agency had a wider perspective or more diverse employee base.

RA: For carriers, for instance, it’s often about utilization. “Why isn’t telehealth working for this population?” Because there’s no trust.

A lot of people will tell us, “My employees don’t have smartphones” or “They’re not as comfortable with technology.” Well, they do and they are. They communicate with their families in Mexico or Central America via WhatsApp. They know how to text, how to download apps, how to video message. That’s not the issue. You need to get down to the real problem. Why isn’t telehealth being widely accepted in certain populations? How are you getting information to the employees?

I always come in with that top of mind: How can we make this more accessible and approachable? It’s kind of scary to hear, “Here’s your $5,000 deductible” when you’re making minimum wage and living in a house with four other families. How are you going to spin that and tell employees how much their employer is paying? In Mexico, for instance, there’s no such thing as insurance or deductibles. I was in Mexico one year and I got sick. My aunt took me to one clinic with a long line, so we went to another. She said, “I know this person; they can get us in faster.” So I was able to see that doctor. And then you leave the clinic and there’s a little pharmacy down the road. That’s the insurance they know. Deductible, out-of-pocket maximum, in network, out of network? Those are all foreign terms. But if you don’t have the perspective, you may not know or understand what to do with that information.

PW: What’s keeping young and diverse candidates from joining the industry?

RA: Nobody knows how to get into insurance. People ask, “What school did you go to for this?” Well, neither of us went to college. We’ve talked about this in our firm, it’s about doing outreach. One of the best ways to get into this is to know somebody who can guide you and tell you what you need to do. I have two nieces who are now in insurance and one who’s getting her license because I’ve talked to them and helped them to understand it.

AM: Getting into it is one thing, but what I’ve found is that there are still a lot of old school insurance people around who think their way is the only way to do it. And it’s often not very innovative. A lot of what we’ve done over the years is just a matter of going out and trying it, even when we didn’t have support or guidance. It’s often about getting out of people’s way and giving them opportunities and green lights to try new things.

RA: Yeah, not being scared to invest in your people, especially those who are green and are completely new to the industry. I think a lot of people are scared that they’ll invest in someone who will then leave; well, why are they leaving? Maybe that’s the problem.

PW: Does industry experience matter? What skills or qualities do you look for when building your team?

AM: It can be good to have experience, but it can also backfire. We’ve had people with 20 years of experience who are like, “That’s not how I do it; this is how you should do it.” And that can be a problem.

Procter & Gamble and Google did an employee swap several years ago where the employees provided ideas to the other company that were often completely different from what you’d get if someone was homegrown. I like to look at other people and see how they do things in their businesses. What can I take and bring here?

Sara Blakely, from Spanx, got her product in at Neiman Marcus. Someone said, “How did you do that?” And she said, “I just went up and asked.” She didn’t know that wasn’t the way you were supposed to do it. And because she didn’t know, she got ahead in that situation.

PW: What are your favorite things about your job?

AM: Making a sale is still one of the best feelings. And I really enjoy the interactions with people. With some of our clients, we’ll go to a renewal meeting and we won’t even talk about the renewal until we’ve spent time just catching up. We get to build a relationship with them outside of who we are as advisors.

RA: And then they end up calling us instead of 911!

But what I love is educating employers and helping them understand their employees. I love talking about new ideas and strategies and getting to know the employees. I had a couple of employees call me yesterday and even during those conversations, I’m getting new ideas.

What excites me is the goal of keeping benefits education top of mind; consistent communication so that even in the middle of the year, if someone ends up at the doctor or hospital, they don’t have that moment of panic because they don’t understand their benefits.

PW: Have you experimented with educational videos or on demand technology to help with communication?

AM: We create videos through our BenefitsTV platform, which we created several years ago. And we’re actually adapting that into a podcast which we’re launching soon.

RA: We’ve also created videos for employers to post on their intranet, but the reason we also extended our hours is because we know there are different situations and people learn in very different ways.

Related: 2023 Broker of the Year: Nancy Giacolone

PW: Finish this sentence: The key to success in this industry going forward is…

AM: Being unique.

RA: Innovation.

AM: But laughing on the job is really important, too.